04.23.25
Phonecall

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Hugo Gyrl is an artist, drag queen, and producer of drag wrestling show CHOKE HOLE. She stayed at Cementland in 2007 and painted a mural honoring Cementland and Bob Cassilly in 2017.

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Danya:

Can you speak a little about yourself and your practice?

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Hugo Gyrl:

My artist name is Hugo Gyrl, and I have been painting graffiti since I was a teenager in the early 2000-s. I'm from New York City, Brooklyn, originally. I first went to Cementland because I was involved in an art project called The Miss Rockaway Armada. It was so long ago, maybe 2007 or 2008. We built these boats out of mostly found materials that were very sculptural and beautiful, and we started in Minneapolis and floated down the Mississippi River. It was all under the guidance and direction of the artist named Swoon. 

However, when we got to St. Louis, because that's where the last lock and dam is, and the current gets much stronger. We realized that we couldn't make it any further because our boats were powered by Volkswagen Rabbit engines that had these DIY propeller attachments on them, and they weren't really strong enough to fight against the river if we ever needed to make a hard turn or go against the current. So we didn't get any further than St. Louis. But we got put in touch with Bob Cassilly, and he allowed us to dock the boats on the part of Cementland that touches the Mississippi River, where those pylons are. We spent a lot of time hanging out in Cementland as well.

We were there for a few weeks, because we were trying to figure out what to do next with the boats. We had just been on this insane trip for months, and we actually had a near death experience trying to maneuver to Cementland, because there was a lot of strong current around the bridge that we went under. The Coast Guard was towing us, and their lines were snapping, and some of the boats almost got sucked underwater. It was a close call! When we got to Cementland, Bob was really sweet. He was super generous. He was a man of few words, but he was very kind with us. And he was like, "Oh yeah, spend the night at City Museum."

So we all got to run around the City Museum all night long; it was so fun. He said, "Do whatever you want, anything." And we were like, "Are you sure?” We're like 20 punks that have been totally feral for the past couple months. He was like, "No, literally, you can do whatever you want." And we didn't really do anything that bad; we spent the night running around and drinking and sliding on all the slides and exploring everything. My friend had gotten into a kitchen area and just started making pizza. This employee came in at 6:00 AM and started freaking out. He was like, "What are you doing here?" And we were like, "Bob said we could do anything we wanted." And he was like, "Fuck, I fucking hate Bob, but ok.”  It was just so cool of him to allow us in. We didn't break anything. We just made some fucking pizza.

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Danya:

For those few weeks, did you just stay on the boats or were you fully staying at Cementland?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Well, a couple of us were staying in Cementland. He was also working on it at the time, so it was a construction site. He had a bunch of goats or sheep there wandering around too. We found these abandoned train cars, some really amazing cabooses that were laid up on these railroad tracks that were right next to Cementland. So some of us stayed in the cabooses, some on the pylon structure that was there, and a couple of people camped out at Cementland too.

I had so much respect for Bob. He was just so mysterious. His whole plan for that place, and just having that much vision—that undertaking was so immense.

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Danya:

Did he have you guys help out with stuff while you were staying? 

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Hugo Gyrl:

No, not really. He just had people coming there and dumping dirt all day, and he was moving it around with a few other people on Caterpillar bulldozers. I don't think there was really anything for us to do, so we just hung out with him a little bit. But really, he was very hands off. He was just like, "Do whatever you want and enjoy yourselves."

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Danya:

So when did you return to Cementland next?

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Hugo Gyrl:

It was a few years. Is there a date on that piece [I painted]? I can't even remember.

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Danya:

You posted it on your Instagram in 2017.

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Hugo Gyrl:

I was traveling with my boyfriend. We were driving through St. Louis to Chicago, and I had a friend who still lived there. And this is all after Bob had died. We went to City Museum, and it was sad, in a way, to be there. I had such a good impression of him and fond memories of that night. Then me and my boyfriend and my St Louis friend were like, "Let's go check out Cementland." We didn't really know what was going on with it at the time. It was just sort of up in the air. There had been word that maybe his son was going to take over the project and keep going with it. We heard there might be security guards. But as someone who didn't live in St. Louis, I didn't have a good finger on the pulse. 

Anyway, we get to Cementland, and we sneak in pretty easily. I brought some paint with me. We're walking around, and then we're on top of one of those metal bridges that go between the roofs of two of the buildings. And we're walking on the bridge and just having a good time. And then we hear these sharp noises, and it's bullets whizzing through the air. We realize there's somebody shooting at us.

And we were like, "Oh shit." We got out of such an open area into one of the buildings, and we snuck back down to the ground. We figured by the sound of the gunshots, they were not that close to us. So we snuck around Cementland. It's just such a big, magical , confusing place. And then I found that wall, and my whole plan was to paint something. So I was like, "Even though somebody just shot at us, I still got to do what I came here to do and leave a little love note to Cementland and Bob." So that's the story of the night that I painted that piece.

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Danya:

Did you ever see the person who was shooting at you?

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Hugo Gyrl:

No, we didn't know who it was at all. I guess there was security at the place at that time. So perhaps it was some security guard gone rogue.

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Danya:

Can you walk me through the process of creating that mural?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Yeah. I didn't really have a sketch. I was just thinking about the place while I was there. It was all really overgrown at that point too, which I'm sure it is now as well. So while we were escaping and trying to get out of bullet range, it just felt like being in this dense jungle/castle. It reminded me of that video game Myst from the 90-s.

And I thought about his intentions—why he built it and how bizarre it was and how it was kind of a wonder of the world. And then there was also a lot of mystery around his death, which I'm sure you know about too. So that was another thing that layered onto the mystery. Just why he did the whole thing. And parts of the things he built—no one could really quite explain how he built them. So I was thinking about that. Maybe aliens, maybe some pyramid builder secrets. The whole thing came off the top of my head, and that's just how I felt during that moment.

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Danya:

And then you just freehanded it?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Yeah.

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Danya:

Wow, how long does it take you for a mural of that size?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Probably an hour or two.

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Danya:

Do you paint a lot on abandoned buildings?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Yeah, especially back then. When I had previously been in St. Louis, I painted a lot. I lived in New Orleans for a long time, so I painted a lot of abandoned buildings there as well. Now I'm in New York, and there aren't so many abandoned buildings. But if I find a tunnel or something, I love to paint.

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Danya:

Do you see your practice as tagging, or do you feel that it's more of muralist kind of work?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Somewhere in between. At that time I was doing a lot of tagging, but I was also moving into images that were a little more complicated. After doing graffiti for so long, quick tags are a little boring. You want to convey a more complex idea, or you want to just paint a more intricate image, so it takes more time. So I actually really liked painting in spots like that. Sure, somebody tried to shoot at me, but I had enough time to get the idea out that I wanted.

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Danya:

Do you see your work intersecting with urbex culture, or do you see it as wholly separate?

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Hugo Gyrl:

They are different things, but they're really connected. I've explored so many abandoned buildings all over the country and the world, and I love it. If I have paint with me, I'll always paint as well. I guess there's people who just go there to check it out and take photos, but I've never been a great photographer. I always like to leave my mark and tell a story with my art rather than taking pictures. But it's a similar passion. You're just doing a different thing once you're there.

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Danya:

How do you feel about the ethics of trespassing and painting on buildings that are technically private property?

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Hugo Gyrl:

It really depends on the instance. But if nobody is using it, you might as well make it into a canvas, do something with it. And if someone's getting pleasure out of seeing that later too, then that's great. I think people need more ways to express themselves. Our country has so little room for that. Even finding a wall, somewhere to paint—it just should be more accessible to people. And if we're not given the space, then we're going to take it.

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Danya:

When you approach a building that has a lot of historical or architectural significance, are there any special considerations that you take into account?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Yeah, for sure. There's been buildings that I've explored where I'm like, "Wow, this is so beautiful. I actually don't want to paint anything here. I just want to leave it for the next person to enjoy." There was this abandoned old folks home that was in New Orleans on the Westbank, and there was a really amazing chapel within it, which had incredible stonework and pews and stained glass and arches. And I didn't do anything there, because I thought it was gorgeous as it was. The next time I went back, it was all tagged up and someone tried to steal all the stained glass windows and had broken most of them in the process, and it sucked.

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Danya:

How do you feel your drag intersects with your visual art practice?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Well, for years I was painting this three nosed witch character, and then I kind of ended up becoming her as part of Choke Hole, which is my drag wrestling show. I've always been drawn to that imagery for many reasons. I guess I became my graffiti.

I had dabbled in drag before, ever since I was young, but it wasn't as big a part of my life until I started doing Choke Hole. It's based in New Orleans; we just toured Germany, and we do shows in New York all the time too.

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Danya:

Are you based and working in New York right now?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Yeah, I'm back in the Big Crapple.

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Danya:

Do you have any projects you're working on right now or coming up that you're excited about?

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Hugo Gyrl:

Choke Hole— that's something that I love doing. We might do a show at MoMA PS1 here in New York pretty soon. And as far as my own graffiti, it's turned more into murals, and I paint them pretty often. I just did a big one in New Orleans on a tattoo shop called Lucky Dagger Tattoo. But yeah, still making murals, still exploring abandoned buildings, and now also drag wrestling. I’m almost 40 now and I’ve found my passions haven’t changed that much!

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